>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO AMANPOUR.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>>> TWO MASSIVE WARS.

AMERICA CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

WILL IT?

FIRST IN GAZA.

A HAMAS DELEGATION HEADS TO A NEW CEASE-FIRE PUSH.

PRESIDENT TRUMP DOES NOT OPPOSE PLANS FOR ESCALATION.

>> THERE WILL BE SOME SWAPPING, SOME CHANGES IN LAND.

>> WILL PUTIN'S WAY TRUMP OVER UKRAINE?

A LAST DITCH CALLING TO AVERT THAT FROM ZELENSKYY AND EUROPEAN ALLIES.

EXPERT MICHAEL KIMMAGE JOINS ME.

>> WE SEEM TO BE TALKING ABOUT A CITY THAT IS NOT MY OWN.

HE WAS TALKING ABOUT A CITY WHERE NOBODY IS SAFE, NOBODY CAN WALK DOWN THE STREETS.

WITH THE NATIONAL GUARD NOW ON THE STREETS OF THE U.S. WITH DC COUNCILMEMBER BROOKE PINTO.

>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST , MARK J. BLECHNER, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND , CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN -- COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS , AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

>>> DONALD TRUMP OFFICE --'S PEACEMAKING EFFORTS ARE IN THE SPOTLIGHT AS HE HAS TO MEET WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN.

WE WILL DISCUSS THAT AND HIS POTENTIAL PITFALLS IN A MOMENT.

>>> FIRST TO THE MIDDLE EAST WHERE THE WHITE HOUSE IS TAKING A HANDS-OFF APPROACH TO THE RENEWED THREATS .

A HAMAS DELEGATION IS IN CAIRO FOR NEW TALKS ON ENDING THE WAR.

OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS THE ENVOY STEVEN WITKOFF AND BENJAMIN NETANYAHU HAVE BEEN TALKING UP A COMPREHENSIVE DEAL TO SECURE THE RELEASE OF HOSTAGES, AND THE FIGHTING AND ADDRESS POSTWAR GOVERNANCE.

EVERY DAY THE WAR CONTINUES, ISRAEL'S ISOLATION GROWS AS AND A LACK OF FOOD AND DATA.

THE UNITED NATIONS WARNS THAT STARVATION IN GAZA IS AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL SINCE FIGHTING BEGAN.

THE HOSTAGES ARE ALSO STILL STUCK IN THIS HELMET --HELLISH CONDITION.

RECENTLY THERE WAS A JOINT CALL FOR HAMAS TO RELINQUISH POWER AS PART OF EFFORTS TO END THE WAR.

VETERAN DIPLOMAT PRINCE TURKI AL FAISAL HAS SERVED AS THE AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S. AND UK.

HE WAS ALSO HEAD OF THE MAIN FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE UNITS.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, MS. AMANPOUR.

>> THERE'S SO MUCH TO DISCUSS.

I WANT TO FIRST ASK YOU WHETHER YOU THINK ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE TO ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH WITHOUT AN IMMEDIATE HALT TO THE MASSIVE HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE, STARVATION, THE FAMINE AND HUNGER, THE SHOOTING OF PALESTINIANS WHO TRY TO GET TO THESE HIGHLY MISMANAGED EIGHT OPERATIONS.

DO YOU THINK ANYTHING CAN REALLY BE DONE WITHOUT THAT BEING ADDRESSED FIRST?

>> IT NEEDS THE UNITED STATES TO PUT ITS FOOT DOWN.

IN PAST HISTORY AMERICA HAS PUT ITS FOOT DOWN SEVERAL TIMES.

I REMIND YOU WHEN PRESIDENT EISENHOWER FORCED THE BRITISH, FRENCH AND ISRAELIS TO WITHDRAW FROM EGYPT DURING THE SUEZ CRISIS.

I REMEMBER WHEN MR. GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH FORCED ISRAEL TO ATTEND THE MADRID CONFERENCE FOR A PEACE CONFERENCE.

WHEN MR. CLINTON FORCED MR. NETANYAHU HIMSELF TO AGREE TO THE PROPOSAL PUT ON THE TABLE AT THAT TIME.

THE U.S. HAS TO PUT ITS FOOT DOWN TO PREVENT THIS GENOCIDE THAT IS TAKING PLACE AT THE HANDS OF A PSYCHOPATH.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY I CAN HE'S USING AMERICA TO BEAT EVERYBODY UP, NOT JUST AUGUSTINIANS BUT TO PREVENT OTHERS FROM DOING GOOD FOR NOT JUST THE PALESTINIANS BUT FOR THE WHOLE AREA.

>> I ASSUME WHEN YOU USE THOSE WORDS, OBVIOUSLY THE ISRAELIS WOULD DENY THAT, BUT I ASSUME YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU.

I WONDER WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT STOPPING OTHERS DOING GOOD AS WELL.

DO YOU MEAN YOURSELF?

IN TERMS OF SAUDI ARABIA AND THE ARAB STATES?

>> NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD.

THE KINGDOM AND THE ARAB STATES ARE DOING THEIR BEST.

THEY ARE THE ONES THAT GOT THE REST OF THE WORLD TO RECOGNIZE THE STATE OF PALESTINE AS DEEMED BY THE UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION.

AS THE MANDATE THAT WAS PUT AFTER THE FIRST WORLD WAR INITIALLY PROPOSED THAT THERE SHOULD BE A PALESTINIAN STATE.

THE KINGDOM AND ITS PARTNERS ARE DOING THEIR BEST.

IT'S THE REST OF THE WORLD THAT MEETS THESE THINGS TO BE DONE AND PARTICULARLY THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.

>> PRINCE TURKI AL FAISAL, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW A VETERAN COLONIST GIDEON LEVY HAS REPORTED A LOT OF WHAT IS GOING ON, HE CAME OUT WITH THIS.

RECOGNITION IS HOLLOW LIPSERVICE THAT THE HESITANT AND WEAK EUROPEAN GOVERNMENTS ARE USING TO SHOW THE ENRAGED PUBLIC THAT THEY ARE NOT HOLDING THEIR SILENCE.

PEOPLE ARE BEING STARVED AND EUROPE'S REACTION IS TO RECOGNIZE THE PALESTINIAN STATE.

WILL THIS SAVE STARVING GAZANS?

ISRAEL CAN IGNORE THESE DECLARATIONS WITH U.S. SUPPORT.

HE JUST TALKED ABOUT HOW THE U.S.

NEEDS TO USE ITS LEVERAGE.

DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS A HOLLOW STATEMENT?

>> I DON'T.

IF I DID I WOULD NOT HAVE TOLD YOU THAT THE ARAB STATES WORKED FOR THAT AND I THINK IT IS IT SHOWS THE ISOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL IN THE WORLD AND IN AS MUCH AS IT HAD IMPACT ON THE EUROPEAN PUBLIC TO COME AROUND AND SUPPORT THE PALESTINIAN STATE TO FORCE THEIR GOVERNMENTS TO DO THAT, HOPE IT WILL WORK IN THE SAME WAY WITH THE UNITED STATES PUBLIC AND THE ISRAELI PUBLIC.

WE SEE THE OPINION IN ISRAEL IS CHANGING AS FAR AS MR. NETANYAHU IS CONCERNED.

THERE ARE MORE ISRAELIS WANTING HIM TO STEP DOWN THEN SUPPORT HIM.

IN THE UNITED STATES, THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO DEMONSTRATE IN THE STREETS CALLING FOR A PALESTINIAN STATE OUR INDICATION THAT THE TIDE IS TURNING THERE.

I DO NOT THINK IT IS HOLLOW.

NOT ONLY THAT BUT BY RECOGNIZING A PALESTINIAN STATE WITH A BORDER AS PROPOSED BY THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION 242 AND 338, THERE WILL BE A DEFINITION OF WHAT ISRAEL CANNOT DO ON THE WEST BANK, FOR EXAMPLE, IN GAZA.

THAT WOULD FORCE EUROPEANS TO TAKE MORE DEFINED ACTION AGAINST WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING.

THERE WILL HAVE TO BE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES.

THERE WILL HAVE TO BE MILITARY CONSEQUENCES.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO STOP SUPPLYING ISRAEL WITH MILITARY HARDWARE AND OTHER ACTIONS LIKE THAT.

THIS, I THINK IS WHAT THE ARAB WORLD IS SEEKING NOT JUST FROM EUROPEANS BUT ALSO FROM THE UNITED STATES.

>> YOU KNOW THAT RECENTLY THE CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY MERZ DID SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY, SUSPENDED WEAPON SUPPLIES TO ISRAEL.

GIVEN THE TERRIBLE HISTORY OF GERMANY REGARDING JEWISH PEOPLE, PEOPLE TOOK NOTICE OF WHAT HE DID.

I WANT TO ASK YOU TO REACT TO WHAT NETANYAHU AND HIS ALLIES SAY, RECOGNIZING A PALESTINIAN STATE IS REWARDING THE TERRACE, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT, DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE A REWARD FOR HAMAS OR DO YOU THINK IT WOULD ISOLATE HAMAS?

IN OTHER WORDS, DOES HAMAS WANT A TWO STATE SOLUTION?

>> IF YOU LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA AND THE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT MADE THE PROPOSITION RECENTLY AT THE UNITED NATIONS TO END THE FIGHTING IN GAZA, THEY STIPULATED THAT HAMAS MUST BE DISARMED.

THEY CONDEMNED HAMAS ACTIONS ON OCTOBER 7 AND THEY WERE VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE GETTING BACK THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY TO RULE, NOT JUST IN HAMAS BUT ALSO IN THE WEST BANK.

THERE IS A DIFFERENT STORY TO THE ONE THAT MR. NETANYAHU IS PROPOSING.

THERE IS NO REWARD FOR HAMAS HERE.

HAMAS IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THAT DESERVES TO BE OUTCAST FROM ANY ACTIVITY OR RULE IN PALESTINE.

AND I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT MR. NETANYAHU HIMSELF AS A TERRORIST WHO SHOULD BE KICKED OUT OF OFFICE IN ISRAEL, YET NOBODY IS CALLING FOR HIS REMOVAL AND HIS RESIGNATION AND HIS TRIAL ACCORDING TO THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE.

>> HAMAS HAS BEEN DESIGNATED A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THE U.S. AND EUROPE, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAS NOT.

JUST PUTTING THAT OUT THERE.

NETANYAHU, ON THE OTHER HAND HAS ESSENTIALLY JUST GIVEN A PRETTY RARE INTERVIEW TO AN ISRAELI TELEVISION IN WHICH HE SORT OF LAID OUT HIS VISION FOR WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT.

THE IDEA OF GOING IN AND OCCUPYING THE LAST STRONGHOLD IN GAZA, GAZA CITY.

THE LAST HAMAS STRONGHOLD IN GAZA.

HE SPOKE ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO GAZANS SAYING HE WOULD , QUOTE, ALLOW THEM TO LEAVE.

>> MUST GAZA REMAIN A CLOSED SPACE?

AND ALL THE OTHER WAR ZONES, IN THE CIVIL WAR IN SYRIA MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LEFT.

IN UKRAINE, MILLIONS LEFT.

IN AFGHANISTAN MILLIONS LEFT.

SUDDENLY THEY DETERMINED IN GAZA THE CIVILIANS MUST BE TRAPPED?

GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEAVE.

THE MOST NATURAL THING FOR ALL OF THOSE SAYING THEY CARE ABOUT THE PALESTINIANS AND WANT TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS WOULD BE FOR THEM TO OPEN THEIR DOORS.

WHY ARE YOU COMING AND PREACHING TO US.

WE WILL LET THESE PEOPLE LEAVE JUST LIKE IT IS DONE IN ANY OTHER WAR ZONE.

>> YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> THAT WOULD BE REWARDING THE TERRORISM OF NETANYAHU .

THAT IS NETANYAHU, THE PERPETRATOR OF GENOCIDE WANTS TO JUSTIFY BY DRIVING OUT THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE.

NOT ONLY GENOCIDE ACTIONS BUT ALSO ETHNIC CLEANSING.

IS THIS ACCEPTABLE?

THE FACT THAT IT HAPPENED IN SYRIA AND UKRAINE AND OTHERS DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS RIGHT FOR IT TO HAPPEN IN PALESTINE.

HE IS PROPOSING EVEN MORE HARDSHIP AND DIFFICULTY ON PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF WHO THEY ARE.

HE IS TOTALLY CUCKOO PERSON WHO ONLY THINKS OF HIS OWN POSITION.

HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE PUT ON TRIAL AND GO TO JAIL SHOULD HE LEAVE OFFICE.

>> ON THE SUBSTANCE HERE IN TERMS OF, WE KNOW BECAUSE WE'VE TRIED TO COVER IT, EVER SINCE HAMAS TOOK OVER IN GAZA THERE WAS A DE FACTO BARRICADE CERTAINLY FROM THE ISRAELI SIDE THE EGYPTIAN SIDE.

THEY COULD NOT GET OUT.

THEY WERE TRAPPED IN WHAT PEOPLE CALLED IN OPEN-AIR PRISON.

THAT IS ONE POINT.

THE OTHER POINT IS WHO WOULD TAKE GAZANS.

EGYPT HAS NOT WANTED TO OPEN IT STORE.

I DO NOT THINK NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES WANT TO PICK WITH SAUDI ARABIA FOR INSTANCE?

NOW WE ARE HEARING REPORTS THAT ISRAELIS ARE TALKING TO SOUTH SUDAN A COUNTRY EMBROILED IN A CIVIL WAR AND FAMINE, TO TAKE THEM.

>> THE NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT WANTS TO WASH ITS HANDS OF ITS MURDEROUS ACTIVITY IN PALESTINE.

IT WANTS TO LAY IT ON OTHERS.

WHY DON'T YOU ASK THE PALESTINIANS THEMSELVES.

ASK THE PEOPLE OF GAZA .

LET MR. NETANYAHU ALLOW YOU TO SURVEY THE PEOPLE .

SEND PEOPLE IN TO ASK WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND THEN FOLLOW WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

IT IS NOT UP TO SAUDI ARABIA OR EGYPT OR ISRAEL OR THE UK OR AMERICA.

IT IS THE GAZAN PEOPLE.

IF MR. NETANYAHU IS SERIOUS ABOUT THAT HE SHOULD STOP THE FIGHTING, ALLOW THE HUMANITARIAN NEED TO GO BACK IN AND SEE IF THEY WANT TO LEAD.

THAT IS THE LOGICAL STEP FOR ANYONE THAT WANTS TO PURSUE LOGICAL COURSES.

HE SIMPLY WANTS TO THROW HIS MISTAKES AND CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AND ITS CONSEQUENCES ON THE OTHERS.

>> CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION.

I'VE INTERVIEWED YOU MANY TIMES.

I'VE NEVER HEARD YOU BE SO UNPLUGGED.

THAT IS A 'VERSION.

IN YOUR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST ISRAELI GOVERNMENT AND THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER.

YOU ARE A LONG-TERM DIPLOMAT.

WHY HAVE YOU TAKEN THIS STEP TO >> IT IS NOT JUST TONIGHT .

IF YOU HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO MY STATEMENTS AND IF YOU HAD READ MY ARTICLES HE WOULD SEE ME SAYING SIMILAR THINGS IN THE PAST.

I AM UP TO HERE WITH WHAT I HEAR FROM NOT JUST NETANYAHU BUT THOSE WHO SUPPORT NETANYAHU.

WHEN HE IS LOUD AS A HERO IN THE UNITED STATES AND DESCRIBED AS SAVIOR OF ISRAEL AND SO ON, IT BOILS MY BLOOD THAT SOMEBODY WOULD THINK OF A GENOCIDAL PSYCHOPATH IN THOSE TERMS.

IT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE TO ME.

I CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.

I AM JUST A CITIZEN WHO IS RETIRED FOR MANY YEARS.

I'M IN MY 80th YEAR NOW, NOT I WISH THERE WOULD BE AN END TO WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

>> ONE OF THE PRIZES THAT ISRAEL WAS AIMING FOR HIS NORMALIZATION WITH SAUDI ARABIA.

I SEE YOU SHAKING YOUR HEAD.

>> MS. AMANPOUR, HOW CAN ANYBODY EXPECT SAUDI ARABIA TO NORMALIZE WITH SUCH A CRIMINAL OR GENOCIDAL MANIAC THERE IS NO WAY SAUDI ARABIA WILL NORMALIZE WITH ISRAEL IN THE PRESENT STATE.

HAVE PEACE.

THE KINGDOM WAS THE ONE THAT PRESENTED THE ARAB PEACE INITIATIVE.

IT'S THERE ON THE TABLE JUST RECENTLY BEFORE THE KINGDOM AND FRANCE AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE THE FIGHTING AND GO FORWARD TO AN END TO THE HOSTILITIES BETWEEN ISRAEL AND ITS NEIGHBORS.

THERE'S A WHOLE HISTORY AND BACKLOG OF SAUDI ACTION FOR PEACE.

NORMALIZATION IS NOT GOING TO COME BEFORE ANY OF THAT.

THE ARAB PEACE INITIATIVE IS BASED ON UN SECURITY COUNCIL REGULAR -- RESOLUTIONS.

INTERNATIONAL LAW SHOULD HOLD ON THESE ISSUES, NOT SIMPLY ABANDON AND OFFER A PRICE HERE FOR A MURDEROUS PSYCHOPATH LIKE MR. NETANYAHU.

>> PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU HAS ALSO TALKED ABOUT , I THINK FOR ONE OF THE RARE TIMES OF FUTURE GOVERNANCE FOR GAZA.

HE HAS TALKED ABOUT TAKING CONTROL AND THEN HANDING IT OVER TO AN ARAB ENTITY OF SOME KIND.

I THINK , OBVIOUSLY EVERYBODY HAMAS INVOLVEMENT IN THE FUTURE BUT I THINK HE'S ALSO DISMISSED THE NOTION OF OF PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY DOING THAT.

WHAT KIND ENTITY, HOW DO YOU THINK THE DAY AFTER SHOULD LOOK ONCE THE THINGS LIKE YOU SAID, THE END OF THE WAR ET CETERA.

>> JUST LOOK AT THE PROPOSAL PUT FORWARD BY FRANCE AND SAUDI ARABIA.

THERE'S A SPECIFIC PROGRAM TO ESTABLISH A GOVERNING AUTHORITY THAT WILL HAVE THE PA OPERATING TO PROVIDE ALL OF THE SERVICES OF THE GOVERNMENT AND RETURN TO CIVIL LIFE AND RECONSTRUCTION AND GIVING PEOPLE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE.

IT IS ALL THERE IN THE SAUDI- FRENCH PLAN WE DO NOT NEED TO REINVENT THE WHEEL AS IT WERE.

THE WHEEL HAS BEEN INVENTED FOR REACHING PEACE IN PALESTINE.

NOW WITH THE ENDING OF THE GAZA CONFLICT THROUGH THE FRENCH- SAUDI PLAN.

I DO NOT SEE ANY PROBLEM IN LAMENTING THOSE IDEAS.

I DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEAS BECAUSE I'M NOT IN GOVERNMENT AND I'M NOT PRIVY TO WHAT IS AND WHAT CAN AND CANNOT BE DONE.

I READ WHAT I SEE IN THE PRESS AND I HEAR THE STATEMENTS OF LEADERS LIKE MACRON AND SEE THAT THEY ARE SERIOUS ABOUT HAVING A CONCRETE DAY AFTER AS IT WERE.

SO PUT IT IN PRACTICE.

INSTEAD OF GOING FOR -- MR. NETANYAHU NOW IS TALKING ABOUT SOME KIND OF BIBLICAL IMAGE OF ISRAEL.

HE IS NOT HIDING IT.

HE'S EVEN SHOWING IT ON MAPS.

THAT WOULD BE FROM THE RIVER TO THE RIVER.

FROM THE NILE TO THE EUPHRATES.

WHICH IS HE GOING TO PURSUE.

THE ONE THAT YOU PROPOSE OR IS HE GOING TO GO FOR OCCUPYING SAUDI AND SYRIAN AND LEBANESE AND IRAQI TERRITORY ALONG WITH PALESTINE AND EGYPT.

HE IS THAT KIND OF PERSON.

>> YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT PUBLIC OPINION IN ISRAEL WHICH IS VERY ON THE KNIFE'S EDGE.

IN THE UNITED STATES YOU ARE CORRECT.

IT IS A SOURCE OF GREAT DISTRESS FOR ALLIES OF ISRAEL THAT CERTAINLY WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, WITHIN YOUNG PEOPLE ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, SUPPORT IS PLUMMETING.

ALSO, THERE ARE MANY WHO LOOK AT WHAT NETANYAHU AND HIS GOVERNMENT HAVE DONE OVER -- LET'S JUST SAY THE PAST SUMMER WITH THE DEGRADATION OF HAMAS, DESIGNATE --DEGRADATION OF -- IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS GOING WELL FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF KILLING A LOT OF PEOPLE IS GOING WELL FOR HIS PERSPECTIVE.

IF HE --IF THAT IS A CRITERIA FOR ACHIEVING SUCCESS I DO NOT KNOW THE CRITERIA FOR FAILURE.

HIS POLICY IS WHAT HAS PUT US IN THIS POSITION.

LOOK AT IT NOW.

MORE THAN 100,000 PALESTINIANS SINCE THE WAR STARTED HAVE BEEN KILLED OR MAIMED OR INJURED.

MILLIONS HAVE BEEN DRIVEN OUT OF THEIR HOMES.

EVERYTHING HAS BEEN DESTROYED.

IS THAT A SUCCESS STORY?

ON THE CONTRARY, I THINK IT IS A TERRIBLE CONSEQUENCE OF THIS MANIACAL INDIVIDUAL WHO SIMPLY CARES ABOUT HIS POSITION AND NOT BEING PUT IN JAIL.

>> PRINCE TURKI AL FAISAL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

OBVIOUSLY THAT IS HIS PERSPECTIVE.

WE SEEK TO GET A RESPONSE FROM THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

SO FAR WE HAVE NOT BEEN LUCKY AND WE HOPE TO CONTINUE THOSE REQUESTS.

>>> BEFORE LEAVING FOR ALASKA PRESIDENT TRUMP MET WITH EUROPEAN LEADERS AND UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY FOR A SUMMIT.

GERMAN CHANCELLOR MERZ EMPHASIZE THAT A CEASE-FIRE MUST COME.

ZELENSKYY EMPHASIZE THAT UKRAINE MUST BE AT THE TABLE FOR CEASE-FIRE TALKS.

>> EVERYTHING ABOUT UKRAINE WILL BE DISCUSSED WITH UKRAINE.

WE HAVE TO BE PREPARED FOR THE CONVERSATION.

FIRST THEN SECURITY GUARANTEES.

BY THE WAY, PRESIDENT TRUMP EXPRESSED HIS SUPPORT FOR THAT.

>> AS DONALD TRUMP TALKS ABOUT UKRAINE SWAPPING LAND WITH RUSSIA AND RUSSIA MAKES MILITARY ADVANCES, TENSION IN KYIV IS HIGH.

A COLUMN IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CALLED THE LIMITS OF PUTIN'S BALANCING ACT OUR NEXT GUEST SAYS THE OVERREACH COULD CREATE CHALLENGES AT HOME.

MICHAEL KIMMAGE TEACHES HISTORY AT CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF AMERICA.

HE'S AND ACKNOWLEDGED EXPERT.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>> CAN WE START WITH WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

WHAT IS THE BEST PRESIDENT TRUMP CAN HOPE FOR ?

WHAT SHOULD WE ALL BE LOOKING FOR TO COME OUT OF THAT.

PRESUMABLY IT'S NOT A FULL- BLOWN PEACE CONFERENCE.

THERE SEEMS TO BE VERY LITTLE PREPARATION.

IT'S A HASTILY ARRANGED MEETING.

IT IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND THE WHITE HOUSE AGENDA.

WHAT ONE CAN HOPE FOR IS THAT IT WOULD BE THE BEGINNING OF A CREDIBLE, PROCESS WERE RUSSIA WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THINGS BEGINNING WITH UKRAINE SOVEREIGNTY AND TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY .

WE ARE SO FAR FROM THAT MOMENT THAT IT'S VERY HARD TO BELIEVE THAT IS THE RESULT WE WILL GET.

>> DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE AT ALL TO GET A CEASE-FIRE ALONG THE CURRENT LINE OF CONFLICT OR NOT.

OBVIOUSLY PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS SAID OVER AND OVER THAT HE IS WILLING TO DO THAT IMMEDIATELY AND UNCONDITIONALLY AS LONG AS THE OTHER SIDE DOES AS WELL.

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

REMEMBER THE WHITE HOUSE HAS ANNOUNCED A SERIES OF CEASE- FIRES AND RUSSIA HAS BLOWN LAST ALL OF THEM AND WAGED AN INCREDIBLY BLOODY WAR AGAINST UKRAINIANS OVER THE SUMMER.

THAT IS THE BACK DROP.

IT IS POSSIBLE PUTIN COULD PROMISE A KIND OF CEASE-FIRE BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE SO MANY VERIFICATION MECHANISMS IN THIS ENORMOUS LINE OF CONTACT.

EVEN IF ZELENSKYY AND PUTIN WOULD ANNOUNCE IT IT COULD TAKE TIME TO ENACT.

TRUSTING HIM ON THIS WOULD BE EXCEPTIONALLY DIFFICULT.

>> WHAT LEVERAGE --IT'S A SILLY QUESTION BECAUSE THE U.S. HAS ALL THE LEVERAGE IN THE WORLD BUT DOESN'T NOW IN TERMS OF FACING OFF WITH PUTIN TO GET A DIPLOMATIC INTO THIS.

>> I THINK IT IS LIMITED CURIOUSLY THE VICE PRESIDENT HAS SAID THE U.S. WILL CEASE ANY FINANCIAL COMMITMENT TO UKRAINIAN WAR EFFORTS.

THAT WAS TAKEN OFF THE TABLE.

IN A DIFFERENCE THOUGH THIS WAS JUST SHIRT TOWARD TODAY BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND CHANCELLOR MERZ THE GREATEST LEVERAGE THE UNITED STATES HAS HIS PARTNERSHIP WITH UKRAINE AND EUROPEAN ALLIES.

THAT'S NOT IN THE BEST OF SHAPE AT THE MOMENT.

IF YOU TAKE THE ESCALATORY OPTIONS OFF THE TABLE OR EVEN TAKE EQUIPMENT ON THE TABLE AND HER TRANSATLANTIC PARTNERSHIP IS IN QUESTION I DO NOT THINK TRUMP IS COMING INTO THE MEETING WITH THE STRONG HAND.

>> YOU ALSO MENTION THE IDEA OF REDUCING TROOPS ALSO GIVES PUTIN MUCH MORE TO COUNT ON FOR HIS OWN SELF.

>> IT CERTAINLY LOOKS GOOD TO PUTIN AND PUTS THE EUROPEANS IN A DIFFICULT SPOT.

IT IS HARD TO SEE HOW THE U.S. CAN DRAMATICALLY SUCCEED WITH THESE NEGOTIATIONS TO WIND DOWN THIS PRESENCE.

THAT IS ONE OF THE CORE CONTRADICTIONS OF THE U.S.

POSITION AT THE MOMENT.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP HIMSELF SEEMS TO BE PRETTY LUCID ABOUT PUTIN.

HE'S HAD FIVE PHONE CALLS WITH THEM.

I THINK HE HAS SHOWN FRUSTRATION THAT WHAT HE THOUGHT WOULD BE AN IMMEDIATE RAPPORT BY PHONE HAS NOT ACTUALLY WORKED IN THE DIRECTION HE HOPED IT WOULD.

MORE THAN THAT, HE BRIEFED THE EU AND NATO ALLIES AFTER THE LAST CONVERSATION A MONTH OR SO AGO THAT PUTIN MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE DID NOT WANT TO CEASE- FIRE BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE WAS WINNING IN UKRAINE.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS CORRECT?

IS PUTIN WINNING?

>> I THINK QUITE THE CONTRARY.

I THINK IT IS A MISERABLE PHASE FOR THE WAR EFFORT ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE DESPITE INCREMENTAL GAINS THAT RUSSIA IS MAKING.

80% OF UKRAINE IS IN UKRAINIAN HANDS.

UKRAINE HAS A KNACK DID A LOT OF TECHNOLOGICAL INNOVATIONS AND COUNTRIES ARE STEPPING UP FOR UKRAINE.

THE LONG-TERM PICTURE DOES NOT LOOK GOOD.

IT BODES WELL OVER TIME FOR NEGOTIATIONS BUT THE COURT QUESTION IS WHETHER PUTIN IS READY.

I THINK TRUMP MAY BE LUCID ABOUT THAT PIC YOU CAN FIND STATEMENTS TO THAT EFFECT.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS LUCID ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP AND WHETHER HE'S OVERESTIMATING HIS NEGOTIATING ABILITIES.

THERE SEEM TO BE SIGNS OF THAT.

>> I WILL PLAY THIS LITTLE BIT OF SOUND FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> IT'S VERY COMPLEX .

YOU HAVE LINES THAT ARE UNEVEN.

THERE WILL BE SOME SWAPPING AND CHANGES IN LAND.

THE WORD THAT THEY WILL USE, THEY MAKE CHANGES WE WILL CHANGE THE BATTLE LINES.

RUSSIA HAS OCCUPIED A BIG PORTION OF UKRAINE.

THEY HAVE OCCUPIED SOME VERY PRIME TERRITORY.

WE WILL TRY AND GET SOME OF THAT BACK.

THEY HAVE TAKEN SOME PRIME >> THEN HE SAID THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SWAPS THE OTHER WAY AROUND AS WELL.

HOW DO YOU SEE THAT WORKING?

IS THERE ANYTHING, OBVIOUSLY THEY WANT TO GET IT BACK FROM RUSSIA BUT IS THERE ANYTHING FOR UKRAINE?

>> A YEAR AGO WE COULD HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT SWAPS OF THE TERRITORY UKRAINE HAD IN RUSSIA .

THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT UKRAINE WAS DRIVING FOR.

UKRAINE NO LONGER HOLDS TERRITORY AND RUSSIA.

IT IS HARD TO WONDERS AND WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP MEANS ABOUT THIS.

SWAPPING WHAT FOR WHAT.

UKRAINE GETTING ITS OWN TERRITORY TO RUSSIA FOR THE SAKE OF GETTING ITS OWN TERRITORY BACK.

ZELENSKYY HAS BEEN CLEAR ABOUT NOT CONCEDING TO THAT.

IT'S NOT AS IF HE CAN WAVE A MAGIC WAND AND GET UKRAINE TO CONCEDE TERRITORY.

IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT ZELENSKYY CAN DO MILITARILY OR POLITICALLY.

IT'S BAFFLING AND ONE OF THE WAYS THIS FEELS LIKE A HASTILY ARRANGED SUMMIT WITHOUT CONSENSUS BEHIND IT AND WITHOUT ADEQUATE STRUCTURE.

>> INTERESTINGLY THE WHITE HOUSE HAS BEEN MOST DEFINITELY LOWERING EXPECTATIONS RIGHT DOWN TO REDUCING IT TO QUOTE UNQUOTE A LISTENING EXERCISE TO GET FACE-TO-FACE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PUTIN WANTS.

THIS IS WHAT ZELENSKYY SAID TODAY AFTER THEY EU MEETING AND ALSO TALKING IN A GROUP WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP VIRTUALLY.

THIS IS WHAT HE SAID PUTIN WANTS.

>> PUTIN IS BLUFFING.

HE'S TRYING TO PUSH BEFORE THE ALASKA MEETING.

RUSSIA WANTS TO OCCUPY THE WHOLE UKRAINE.

THIS IS HIS WISH.

HE IS BLUFFING THAT SANCTIONS ARE NOTHING AND THEY DON'T LIKE.

IN FACT, SANCTIONS ARE HITTING THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY HARD.

>> THE REACTION TO BOTH.

BLUFFING HE WANTS TO OCCUPY THE WHOLE PLACE AND THE SANCTIONS HE SAYS ARE WORKING.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE CASE?

>> I THINK ZELENSKYY IS OVERSTATING.

I THINK RUSSIA HAS SCALED BACK SOME TERRITORIAL AMBITIONS.

IT MAY BE THAT TERRITORY IN INCHES AND MILES IS NOT THE KEY THING.

WHAT RUSSIA WANTS AND HERE HE IS GETTING THE STORY RIGHT, IS SOME POLITICAL CONTROL OVER UKRAINE.

THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BEAR IN MIND.

WHETHER THE SANCTIONS ARE INTERNAL FACTORS THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY IS BEGINNING TO DETERIORATE.

YOU HAVE HIGHER INFLATION AND AN ECONOMY THAT IS OVERHEATING.

I WOULD BE CAUTIOUS ON THAT AS WELL.

I DO NOT THINK PUTIN IS BEING PRESSURED TO NEGOTIATE BECAUSE THE ECONOMY.

IT'S NOTABLE THAT TRUMP HAS THREATENED AND ENACTED TARIFFS ON INDIA FOR PURCHASING RUSSIAN OIL AND USING THAT AS POTENTIAL LEVERAGE AGAINST RUSSIA IF THESE NEGOTIATIONS DON'T GO WELL.

PUTIN IS NOT ON THE ROPES ECONOMICALLY.

HE MAY GET THERE BUT HE'S NOT YET.

>> RIGHT.

OF COURSE, FOR EUROPE BECAUSE THEY ARE EXCLUDED FROM THE ACTUAL MEETING BUT THEY DID HAVE A VIRTUAL MEETING TODAY IN THE LEAD UP TO THE ALASKA SUMMIT.

THIS IS WHAT CHANCELLOR MERZ SAID .

>> WE EUROPEANS ARE PUTTING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO LAY THE GROUNDWORK TO MAKE SURE THE MEETING GOES THE RIGHT WAY.

WE WANT PRESIDENT TRUMP TO HAVE SUCCESS ON FRIDAY IN ANCHORAGE.

>> ALSO, PRESIDENT MACRON SAYS THE AMERICANS DO WANT TO OBTAIN A CEASE-FIRE AND TRUMP EXPRESSED SUPPORT FOR REAL SECURITY GUARANTEES FOR UKRAINE.

WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?

YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE FOR THE BALTIC STATES ANYWAY TO REALLY WORRY ABOUT SECURITY GUARANTEES AND WHAT MIGHT COME NEXT.

>> THESE CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN GOING IN CIRCLES.

EUROPE IS WILLING TO DO QUITE A TO PROVIDE SOME FORM OF SECURITY GUARANTEE TO UKRAINE BUT EUROPE WANTS A BACKSTOP AND EUROPE WANTS A STRONG UNDERPINNING FOR THIS.

THAT IS SOMETHING PRESIDENT TRUMP REFUSES TO PROVIDE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT EUROPEANS CAN TAKE HOME FROM THAT COMMENT THAT HE'S WILLING TO CONSIDER A SECURITY GUARANTEE.

IF THAT'S THE CASE IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED THREE MONTHS AGO AND BEEN WORKED THROUGH, IT COULD WELL BE EMPTY WORDS.

AGAIN, THE BACKDROP OF THE U.S.

SPECULATING ABOUT A MINIMIZING OF THE MILITARY PRESENCE IN EUROPE MAKES EUROPEANS WORRY ABOUT THE EUROPEAN --U.S.

COMMITMENT TO NATO AND NOT JUST UKRAINE.

TRUMP HAS A HUGE CREDIBILITY GAP AND ONE WONDERS HOW THE MEETING WILL GO IF IT WIDENS THE CREDIBILITY GAP OR MAKES IT SMALLER .

>> KIND OF A TWO-PRONGED QUESTION BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME.

I GUESS A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SAID I HOPE IT DOES NOT GO LIKE THE HELSINKI SUMMIT IN 2018.

WE WERE THERE AND WE SAW PRESIDENT TRUMP FAMOUSLY TURNED TO PUTIN AND SAY, I BELIEVE HIM ESSENTIALLY AGAINST HIS OWN INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.

YOU HAVE ALSO WRITTEN ABOUT PUTIN'S OVERREACH AND THE BALANCING ACT.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> THE FIRST ONE IS A HUGE CONCERN.

HELSINKI WAS A TERRIBLE PRECEDENT FOR THIS UPCOMING MEETING IF IT'S RELEVANT BECAUSE TRUMP WANDERS OVER TO THE RUSSIAN NARRATIVE OF THINGS.

IF THAT HAPPENS ON FRIDAY HE WILL END UP LEGITIMIZING THE RUSSIAN WAR EFFORT WHICH WOULD BE BAD ALL AROUND.

PUTIN HAS CERTAIN OVERREACHING UKRAINE.

HE'S BURNED UP ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF MATERIAL.

WE WILL HAVE ROUGHLY 1 MILLION DEATHS AND CASUALTIES BY THE END OF THIS YEAR.

TERRITORY HAS BEEN TURNED TO A WASTELAND.

RUSSIA IS IMPOSSIBLY FAR FROM VICTORY.

AS WE PARSE THROUGH THE DETAILS WE CANNOT FORGET THAT.

THIS IS VERY MUCH A WAR THAT RUSSIA IS NOT WINNING.

>> ONE MORE QUESTION BECAUSE NOW I HAVE QUESTIONS OF PRESIDENT REAGAN TALKING ABOUT NUCLEAR WEAPONS WITH GORBACHEV AND EVERYBODY SAID THAT WAS A DISASTER.

IN THE AND IT TURNED OUT PRETTY WELL.

REACTION?

>> THAT IS TRUE.

THERE'S A SPONTANEOUS SYNERGY AMONG LEADERS THAT SOMETIMES CAN YIELD UNEXPECTED RESULTS.

THERE WAS A WHOLE ARCHITECTURE OF DIPLOMATIC INITIATIVE IN THE 80s THAT I DO NOT SEE IN PLACE NOW.

EVEN IF THE CHEMISTRY IS DECENT BETWEEN PUTIN AND TRUMP WHETHER THEY CAN REALLY TRANSLATE THAT TO PEACE FOR UKRAINE OR BETTER SECURITY FOR EUROPE I AM SKEPTICAL.

>> ALONG WITH ALL SORTS OF THINGS FOR THE STATE DEPARTMENT THERE WILL BE VERY FEW IF ANY EXPERTS IN THE ROOM BUT DURING THIS CONVERSATION.

>>> NOW TO THE STREETS OF WASHINGTON, D.C.

WERE NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS HAVE AND DEPLOYED.

PRESIDENT TRUMP FOULS TWO, QUOTE, TAKE OUR CAPITAL BACK.

THE STATISTICS POINT TO CRIME NUMBERS FALLING .

DC COUNCILMEMBER BROOKE PINTO WAS SELECTED IN 2020 AS THE YOUNGEST COUNCILMEMBER IN THE DISTRICT HISTORY.

SHE IS JOINING MICHEL MARTIN TO BREAK DOWN THE CLAIMS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE WATCHING THIS PROGRAM WILL NOT UNDERSTAND HOW IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE FOR THE PRESIDENT TO TAKE OVER A LOCAL POLICE FORCE .

EVEN FOR 30 DAYS.

AS BRIEFLY AS YOU CAN CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW IT IS THAT THAT IS >> YES.

FIRST LET ME BE VERY CLEAR.

THE PRESIDENT HAS NOT TAKEN OVER THE POLICE FORCE.

OUR POLICE FORCE IS STILL RUN BY CHIEF SMITH WHO IS THE CHIEF OF THE METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THEY REPORT TO MAYOR BOWSER.

WE HAVE OVERSIGHT .

THAT HAS NOT CHANGED.

>> WITH THAT CLARIFICATION HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO WHATEVER IT IS HE SAYS HE'S DOING, TO FEDERALIZE THE POLICE EVEN FOR 30 DAYS WHICH IS WHAT THE LAW CURRENTLY PERMITS.

>> DC IS A VERY UNIQUE JURISDICTION IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

WE ARE NOT ESTATE.

WE ARE A FEDERAL DISTRICT AND WE FUNCTION CITY, COUNTY, AND STATE ALL IN ONE.

IN 1973 CONGRESS PASSED THE HOME RULE ACT WHICH ESSENTIALLY AUTHORIZED THE DISTRICT TO HAVE OUR OWN LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO MANAGE THE CITY, TO MANAGE WHAT MANAGE OUR OWN POLICE, SCHOOLS, STREET, AND TO PROVIDE FOR THE WELL-BEING OF OVER 700,000 DISTRICT RESIDENTS WHO CALL IT HOME.

THERE IS A PROVISION OF THE HOME RULE CHARTER THAT ALLOWS THE PRESIDENT DURING AN EMERGENCY WHICH IS BROADLY DEFINED, THAT HE OR SHE CAN CALL ON SERVICES FROM THE METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR 30 DAYS.

HE AND HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER, THAT IS WHAT THE LANGUAGE SAYS.

IT MIRRORS WHAT IS IN THE HOME RULE ACT THAT SAYS THERE IS AN EMERGENCY IN WASHINGTON, D.C. THAT ALLOWS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO CALL ON SERVICES FROM MPD.

THE METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT IS STILL RUN BY LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

>> CAN WE TAKE THIS PIECE BY FIRST OF ALL, DO YOU AGREE THERE'S AN EMERGENCY?

>> EVERY PERSON SHOULD BE SAFE IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

WHETHER YOU LIVE HERE, WORK HERE, A TOURIST OR ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD AND WE HAVE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS WHEN IT'S COME TO PUBLIC SAFETY ESPECIALLY THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

I SHARE --CHAIR THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY.

I PUT TOGETHER LAST YEAR THE SINGLE LARGEST PIECE OF PUBLIC SAFETY LEGISLATION IN OUR CITY HISTORY WITH OVER 100 DIFFERENT INTERVENTIONS TO PREVENT CRIMES, HOLD PERPETRATORS ACCOUNTABLE AND IMPROVE GOVERNMENT COORDINATION.

SINCE WE PASS THAT ALL WE'VE SEEN VIOLENT CRIME GO DOWN BY NEARLY 50%.

WE HAVE THE LOWEST VIOLENT CRIME NUMBERS WE'VE HAD IN 30 YEARS.

I BELIEVE THERE'S MORE WORK TO DO TO ENSURE THAT NO MATTER WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD YOU LIVE IN YOU ARE SAFE.

I AM LASER FOCUSED ON CONTINUING THAT WORK ON BEHALF OF OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE IT'S A REALITY.

TO DECLARE THAT THERE IS AN EMERGENCY IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHO WE NEED TO BE PARTNERS IN OTHER WAYS, NOT IN THIS WAY.

>> WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND WHEN YOU SAW AND PRESUMABLY WATCHED THE PRESS CONFERENCE?

>> FIRST HE SEEMED TO BE TALKING ABOUT A CITY THAT IS NOT MY HOME.

HE WAS TALKING ABOUT A CITY WHERE NOBODY IS SAFE.

NOBODY CAN WALK DOWN THE STREETS.

THAT'S NOT THE EXPERIENCE OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF DISTRICT RESIDENTS WHO ARE WONDERFUL, CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS OF SOCIETY.

WHO ARE PART OF THE THRIVING AND BEAUTIFUL CITY .

IT ALSO SEEMED TO BE SOMETHING THAT SOUNDED GOOD TO HIM, SOUNDS LIKE A FIX.

CRIME IS COMPLICATED.

SERIOUS SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

FOR INSTANCE, HE TALKED ABOUT THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS ENOUGH OFFICERS TO GUIDE FUNDAMENTALLY DISAGREE.

I THINK WE NEED HUNDREDS OF MORE OFFICERS THAT ARE THROUGH THE METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT, MEANING THEY GET TRAINED THROUGH OUR POLICE ACADEMY THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY.

THEY KNOW OUR LOCAL LAWS AND THE UNIQUE INTERPLAY WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MEANING THEY WHERE BODY WORN CAMERAS AND ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE OF DC IF THERE'S AN ISSUE.

JUST TO SAY WE WILL HAVE HUNDREDS OF NATIONAL GUARDSMEN GOING THROUGH THE STREETS WHO ARE NOT TRAINED FOR THIS .

IT'S NOT A GOOD USE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

TO ME THAT SOUNDS LIKE AN EASY FIX THAT WILL ACTUALLY SOLVE THE SERIOUS PROBLEMS WE HAVE.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK THE SERIOUS PROBLEM IS?

THE IMMEDIATE PREDICATE OF THE ACTION SEEMS TO BE THAT AN AD APPOINTED TO SEEK WHAT THEY CLAIM WAS WASTE, FRAUD, AND ABUSE SO THE DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY HEADED BY ELON MUSK AND POPULATED BY A NUMBER OF VERY YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WENT AFTER FEDERAL AGENCIES LOOKING FOR WAYS TO CUT THEM AND DID.

THE IMMEDIATE PREDICATE SEEMS TO BE THAT A MEMBER OF THIS TEAM WAS ASSAULTED EARLY IN THE MORNING AFTER A NIGHT OUT.

THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER DISTURBING INCIDENTS IN THE DISTRICT WHICH ARE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PARTICULAR THING THAT MOTIVATES THIS.

>> WE HAVE GOT TO GET THE ILLEGAL GUNS OFF THE STREET.

THAT IS THE CONSISTENT ELEMENT IN SO MANY OF THESE CASES THAT WE SEE AROUND THE COUNTRY AND WASHINGTON, D.C. IS NO DIFFERENT.

THERE ARE ILLEGAL GUNS FLOWING IN.

WE NEED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT --IF THEY WANT TO BE HELPFUL WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC SAFETY COMMONSENSE GUN CONTROL REFORMS.

WE NEED THEM TO DO THAT IN OUR NEIGHBORING STATE OF VIRGINIA AS WELL WHICH WE ARE SEEING THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE ILLEGAL GUNS COME FROM.

THAT'S A HUGE PART THAT CANNOT BE MISSED HERE.

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT MOTIVATES THE PRESIDENT.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR HIM.

I THINK YOUR ESTIMATION IS PROBABLY ACCURATE THAT THERE WAS A PERSON HE KNEW OR THAT WAS TIED TO HIS ADMINISTRATION SO THIS IS THE IMPETUS.

IT DOES NOT MIRROR THE FACT ON THE GROUND THAT VIOLENT CRIME IS DECREASING EACH MONTH.

WE ARE AT A 30 YEAR LOW.

WITH THAT SAID, I DO NOT WANT TO BELITTLE THE REAL EXPERIENCE OF VICTIMS OF CRIME .

WHILE WE ARE TRENDING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION THERE IS MORE TO DO.

WHAT I AM SAYING IS THERE ARE OTHER, BETTER, MORE EFFECTIVE AVENUES TO DO IT THROUGH LOCAL LAWS, THROUGH THE SENATE HAVE MANY VACANCIES ON OUR LOCAL COURT THROUGH OUR U.S. ATTORNEY PROCESSING THESE CASES, I CONGRESS FILLING THE $1 BILLION BUDGET GAP THAT THEY TOOK FROM OUR .

>> THEY SAID THE CITY WAS OVERRUN BY BLOODTHIRSTY CRIMINALS, ROVING MOBS OF WILD YOUTH, DRUGGED OUT MANIACS AND HOMELESS PEOPLE .

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

>> NOT ONLY IS THAT LANGUAGE SO OFFENSIVE FOR SO MANY REASONS, IT IS NOT THE SERIOUS WORK OF GOVERNMENT.

THE GOVERNMENT IS HERE TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.

WE KNOW THAT VERY WELL IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

WE SEE PROBLEMS AND RESOLVE THEM.

BUSINESS OF DOING.

WHEN IT COMES TO HOMELESSNESS, FOR INSTANCE.

WE DID HAVE A MAJOR SPIKE IN PEOPLE LIVING OUTSIDE FOLLOWING THE PANDEMIC THAT WAS THE RESULT OF A NUMBER OF THINGS INCLUDING THE CDC SAYING IT WASN'T SAFE TO LIVE IN CONGREGATE SETTINGS.

HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE MOVED OUTSIDE AND WERE LIVING IN ENCAMPMENTS.

I VISITED THOSE ENCAMPMENTS AND I PUT TOGETHER A PLAN WITH THE COLLEAGUES, THE MAYOR, HOMELESS SERVICES PROVIDERS AND WE STARTED WHAT WE CALLED THE CARE PILOT WHERE WE WENT TO THE LARGEST ENCAMPMENT SITES AND SET FOR 30 DAYS WE WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH THE SERVICES YOU NEED.

WE WILL CONNECT YOU TO HOUSING, MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT IF YOU NEED IT.

AT THE END OF THE 30 DAYS WE ARE CLOSING DOWN THE PARK TO CAMPING.

WHEN WE DID THAT WE SAW 84% OF THOSE PEOPLE MOVE INDOORS TO PERMANENT HOUSING.

WE STARTED ANOTHER NEW MODEL IN WORD TWO WHERE I REPRESENT FOR TRANSITIONAL BRIDGE HOUSING TO SAY IF YOU ARE LIVING OUTSIDE AS YOU ARE WAITING FOR A PERMANENT APARTMENT OR VOUCHER TO BECOME AVAILABLE YOU CAN COME INSIDE AND GET FULL-TIME CASE MANAGEMENT AND SUPPORT AND MEALS.

IT'S CALLED TRANSITIONAL BRIDGE HOUSING WHICH WE NOW HAVE AND WE ARE SEEING MAJOR SUCCESS .

WE HAVE TO DO MORE AS THE NATIONS CAPITAL TO ENSURE EVERY PERSON CAN LIVE INDOORS WITH DIGNITY.

I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE ARE SAFE FOR ANYBODY TO BE LIVING OUTSIDE.

THERE IS A PROCESS TO DO SO >> JEANINE PIRRO, FORMER FOX NEWS PERSONALITY WHO HAD BEEN CONFIRMED FOR THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SHE SAID AT THE SAME PRESS ANNOUNCED THIS INITIATIVE SHE SEES A PROBLEM WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.

SHE SAID NOBODY HAS BEEN ARRESTING THEM BECAUSE THE SUPERIOR COURTS IN THE OFFICE HAS NO JURISDICTION BECAUSE THE DC CITY COUNCIL HAS PREVENTED MY OFFICE FROM PROSECUTING ANYONE THAT IS 14, 15, 16, 17 YEARS AGO --OLD.

CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE TRUTH OR FALSITY OF THAT NAME?

>> FIRST, I WORK WITH THE U.S. ATTORNEY JUST AS I HAVE WORKED WITH EVERY U.S. ATTORNEY BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT THEY HANDLE IN THE FEDERALLY APPOINTED ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ADULT PROSECUTIONS.

OUR LOCAL ATTORNEY GENERAL HANDLES JUVENILE PROSECUTIONS.

THAT'S NOT BECAUSE OF SOME LAW THAT WAS PASSED.

THAT'S THE WAY THE STRUCTURE HAS BEEN FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

ABSOLUTELY INACCURATE TO SAY THAT THEY CAN BE ARRESTED.

THEY ARE ARRESTED EVERY DAY WHETHER A JUVENILE OR AN ADULT.. JUVENILE IT WILL GO THROUGH THE YOUTH ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND IT AND ADULT WOULD GO THROUGH THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

THAT IS AN ACCURACY NUMBER ONE.

SECOND, THE U.S. ATTORNEY OFTEN BRINGS CASES AGAINST JUVENILES IN FEDERAL COURT WHICH ALLOWS THEM IF IT WAS WITH A WEAPON OR A LOT OF VICTIMS.

THAT IS ALREADY PRACTICE THAT HAPPENS WITH THE PREVIOUS U.S. ATTORNEY AND CURRENT U.S. ATTORNEY.

I ALSO HAVE TO SAY THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THE CITY ARE DOING AMAZING THINGS AND ARE NOT INVOLVED AND ARE BEING KIDS.

I WANT YOUR VIEWERS TO UNDERSTAND THAT WASHINGTON, D.C. HAS OVER 700,000 RESIDENTS INCLUDING KIDS WHO ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY.

THE MAJORITY OF THE VIOLENT CRIMES ARE STILL BEING COMMITTED I MEN BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18 AND 35.

THIS IDEA THAT IT IS ALL JUVENILES IS ALSO FALSE.

>> IS YOUR BASIC TAKE ON THIS ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION INITIATIVE HERE THAT IT IS UNNECESSARY OR IT IS DELETERIOUS AND IT'S ONLY OR JUST THE IDEA IS OFFENSIVE TO PEOPLE IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT?

>> SENDING IN NATIONAL GUARDS TO OUR CITY WHO ARE UNTRAINED IN OUR LOCAL LAWS, DON'T UNDERSTAND OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND OUR CHALLENGES IS UNDERMINING TO PUBLIC SAFETY, TO OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT HAS WORKED TIRELESSLY TO BUILD UP TRUST AND COLLABORATION WITH COMMUNITIES ACROSS DC TO DRIVE DOWN VIOLENT CRIME.

IF THERE IS SOMEBODY IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD OR YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE IS ROLLING THROUGH IN MILITARY UNIFORM WITH A TANK, THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY SOMEBODY THAT YOU WANT TO COMMUNICATE INFORMATION TO ABOUT A CRIME THAT YOU SAW ON YOUR BLOCK.

THEY ARE NOT TRAINED IN LOCAL LAWS THE WAY THAT THE METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT ARE.

WHILE I'M A BIG POLICE -- BELIEVER THAT WE NEED TO BOLSTER THE SIZE OF OUR FORCE JUST HAVING NATIONAL GUARD SUPPORT COME IN WITHOUT CLEAR DIRECTION OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS NOT USEFUL AND CAN BE HARMFUL.

>> ARE YOU WORRIED THERE IS A MIXED MESSAGE HERE?

THERE'S ALSO THE CASE THAT THE PRESIDENT PARDON ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THE JANUARY 6 ATTACK AT THE CAPITAL WHICH INJURED LAW ENFORCEMENT INCLUDING 60 OFFICERS AT THE METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT .

SOME OF WHOM ARE SO SEVERELY INJURED THEY COULD NOT RETURN TO THEIR DUTIES.

YOU WORRY THAT THERE IS A MIXED MESSAGE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE ENTIRE THING IS SO INCONSISTENT.

IT ALSO USED TO BE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT SUPPORTED DECISIONS BEING MADE BY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT .

THAT HAS GONE OUT THE WINDOW IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.

IT'S NOT RESPONSIBLE.

IT'S NOT SERIOUS BUSINESS.

I'M ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT A MIXED MESSAGE LIKE THAT.

MY RESPONSIBILITY IS TO BE SAFE TO EVERY PERSON THAT COMES HERE AND LIVES HERE .

I WILL ALWAYS BE FOCUSED ON CONTINUING THE PROGRESS WE'VE MADE TO ENSURE THAT SAFETY IS A REALITY FOR EVERYONE .

WE WILL DO SO WITH THE TOOLS AND RESOURCES WE HAVE IN OUR UNIQUE SITUATION AS A NONSTATE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. >> SO IF I DON'T PLAN TO VISIT ANY TIME SOON WHY DO I CARE?

>> GOVERNORS --GOVERNMENT AT THE CORE SHOULD BE USED TO SOLVE PROBLEMS AND HELP PEOPLE.

MAKING OUR LOCAL CITY OR ANY JURISDICTION ACROSS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ESSENTIALLY A MILITARY ZONE SO YOU CAN SOUND PUBLIC SAFETY IS EXTREMELY FRIGHTENING AND DISCONCERTING AND IS NOT THE AMERICA THAT I AM PROUD OF AND NOT THE AMERICA I KNOW RESIDENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WANT TO LIVE IN.

EVERY PERSON DESERVES TO BE SAFE.

EVERY PERSON DESERVES TO HAVE OPPORTUNITY AND EVERY PERSON DESERVES TO HAVE A GOVERNMENT WHETHER IT IS THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT, STATE GOVERNMENT AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WORKING ON YOUR BEHALF ON SERIOUS SOLUTIONS TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS OF YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE.

THIS IS NOT A SERIOUS SOLUTION.

IT IS WHAT IS SO TROUBLESOME TO ME.

TODAY IT IS HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON, D.C. .

WE NEED TO HAVE EACH OTHER'S BACKS AND GET TO A PLACE WHERE WE CAN COME TOGETHER.

THIS SHOULD NOT BE SO EITHER OR .

I DON'T WANT DEMOCRATS BUT IN THIS POSITION FOLLOWING THIS ACTION OF SAYING THERE IS NO CRIME AT ALL AND NO CHALLENGES OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

THAT'S NOT ACCURATE EITHER.

THAT'S WHY I'M BEING VERY CLEAR THAT WE DO HAVE CHALLENGES WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

WE ARE NOT IN A CRIME EMERGENCY.

WE ARE HAVING A CRIME SPIKE.

WE ARE HAVING THE LOWEST VIOLENT CRIME IN 30 YEARS, BUT THERE'S MORE WORK TO DO.

THAT'S THE WORK OF GOVERNMENT THAT I'M WORKING ON EVERY DAY ALONGSIDE OUR COLLEAGUES AND MAYOR AND ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> WHEREVER YOUR GOVERNMENT IS SERIOUS WORK.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, AS EUROPE FACES ANOTHER SCORCHING HEAT WAVE, PEOPLE IN BOSNIA ARE TRACKING TO COOL DOWN ON HIGHER GROUND.

WITH TEMPERATURES REACHING 43 CELSIUS LOCALS AND TOURISTS HIKING TO THE MOUNTAINS NEAR SARAJEVO.

SOME EVEN TAKEN THE FAMOUS CABLE CAR FOR FRESH AIR.

NEARBY A STUNNING NIGHTTIME SPECTACLE HAS LIT UP THE SKY.

THE ANNUAL METEOR SHOWER.

IT THRILLED LUCKY VIEWERS AROUND THE WORLD LAST NIGHT.

A FEW SPOTTED SHOOTING STARS AT A MONUMENT COMMEMORATING THE BOSNIAN WAR.

I WONDER IF THEY MADE A WISH, PERHAPS FOR PEACE IN OUR WORLD.

>>> THAT IS IT FOR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS COMING UP EVERY NIGHT SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER, PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

GOODBYE AND THANK YOU FROM LONDON.