♪ ♪ >> Renee: FOR MORE THAN HALF A CENTURY, THE URBAN LEAGUE OF LEXINGTON FAYETTE COUNTY HAS SERVED AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND OTHER MARGINALIZED POPULATIONS IN CENTRAL KENTUCKY.

A NEW BOOK COMMEMORATES THIS MILESTONE AND THE STRIDES MADE TO ELEVATE UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS IN EDUCATION, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, HOUSING, SOCIAL AND RACIAL JUSTICE AND SO MUCH MORE.

A CONVERSATION WITH THE PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

P.G.

PEEPLES AND JOURNALIST JACALYN CARFAGNO WHO LED THE EFFORT TO DOCUMENT THE ORGANIZATION'S SUCCESS.

THAT'S COMING UP NOW ON "CONNECTIONS" THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME FOR CONNECTIONS TODAY.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THE URBAN LEAGUE OF LEXINGTON FAYETTE COUNTY WAS ESTABLISHED AT THE HEIGHT OF THE TURMOIL AND UNREST IN THE 1960s THAT WAS GRIPPING CITIES ACROSS THE NATION.

IN THE 50 YEARS PLUS SINCE, THE ORGANIZATION HAS MADE TREMENDOUS STRIDES IN ADVANCING RACIAL EQUITY IN THE REGION, PROVIDING EDUCATIONAL SCHOLARSHIPS FOR KIDS WITH PROMISE AND TAKING ON GENTRY IF I QAITION GENTRIFICATION AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

JOINING ME IS P.G.

PEEPLES, PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

OF THE URBAN LEAGUE AND A JOURNALIST WHO MAY LOOK FAMILIAR TO YOU, JACALYN CARFAGNO, WHO LED THE EFFORT TO COMMEMORATE THE URBAN LEAGUE'S SUCCESS IN THIS BOOK, THE FIRST 50 YEARS 1968-2018.

YOU KNOW I HAVE TO RIB YOU A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, YOU WERE A STAPLE IN THIS STUDIO, I GUESS THE STUDIO NEXT DOOR, FOR COMMENT ON KENTUCKY.

SO IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK, AT LEAST ON OUR PREMISES.

>> THANK YOU.

GIETS GOOD TO BE BACK.

AND THOSE WERE FUN YEARS AND KEPT ME ON MY TOES.

>> Renee: THAT'S RIGHT.

BEFORE WE STARTED THE TAPING, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AL SMITH AND THE JOURNALISTS BACK IN THE DAY.

AND CERTAINLY WE MISS SOME OF THE GOOD OL' DAYS.

WE ARE GLAD TO HAVE P.G.

PEEPLES WHO HAS BEEN ON HERE BEFORE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, SIR.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU, SAME TO YOU.

>> Renee: WHAT A YEAR IT HAS ALREADY BEEN IN 2021.

WE WON'T GET STARTED WITH THAT.

WE MIGHT END WITH AT THAT TIME BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO AIR, YOU KNOW, RIGHT THE WEEKEND BEFORE THE INAUGURATION OF THE PRESIDENT-ELECT JOE BIDEN AND VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS BOOK.

BUT I ALSO WANT TO GO BACK TO YOUR HISTORY, P.G.

BECAUSE YOU WERE THE YOUNGEST LEADER OF AN URBAN LEAGUE AFFILIATE IN THE NATION.

YOU CAME ABOARD IN 1971.

>> P 71 IS WHEN I BECAME C.E.O.

I CAME TO WORK FOR THE URBAN LEAGUE IN 69.

>> Renee: A YEAR AFTER ITS FOUNDING.

>> YEAH.

>> Renee: SO CAN YOU GIVE MAYBE JUST ONE SENTENCE ABOUT WHAT THE URBAN LEAGUE HAS DONE TO BETTER THE CENTRAL KENTUCKY COMMUNITY?

COULD YOU SAY THAT IN ONE SENTENCE?

>> I CAN SAY THAT WE HAVE BEEN BRIDGE BUILDERS.

>> Renee: BRIDGE BUILDERS.

I WANT TO ASK THE WRITER OF THE BOOK, TOO, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH HOW MUCH?

I WANT YOU TO TELL ME HOW TOILING IT WAS TO DO THIS BOOK.

[LAUGHTER] BECAUSE I'M SURE P.B.

IS PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT OF A PACK RACK.

>> P.G.

IS A PACK RAT AND DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, IT TOOK A VILLAGE TO GET THIS BOOK WRITTEN AND TO FIND THE SOURCES.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD JUST SAY A SHOUT OUT TO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE, EVAN GILES WHO HAS DONE A BRILLIANT JOB AND TIRELESSLY WORKED TO UNCOVER THE HISTORY OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN CENTRAL KENTUCKY AND GERALD SMITH AND P.G., WHO, YOU KNOW, I SNEEZED A LOT GOING THROUGH THOSE OLD RECORDS IN YOUR OFFICE.

[LAUGHTER] >> >> Renee: HAD TO WEAR A MASK LITERALLY FOR ANOTHER REASON.

>> AND A BUNCH OF DEAD FLIES IN THERE SOME DAYS, BUT YOU KNOW, AND SPENT A LOT OF TIME AT THE U.K. ARCHIVES.

YOU KNOW, AND IT WAS FASCINATING.

YOU JUST REALIZED, I THINK, YOU KNOW, MAYBE FOR EXCUSE ME FOR TOUCHING MY MIC, BUT I THINK PERHAPS FOR SOME WHITE PEOPLE, YOU THINK THAT YOU KNOW, WE'VE MOVED ON.

I MEAN I GREW UP IN ARKANSAS IN THE 1950s AND 1960s.

I DON'T THINK I HAD MANY ILLUSIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, RACIAL RELATIONS IN THOSE DAYS.

SOME OF MY VERY FIRST MEMORIES OF PUBLIC LIFE ARE RELATED TO CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL DEG CRIES DESEGREGATION CRISIS.

BUT COMING BACK HERE IN THE 21st CENTURY AND READING AGAIN ABOUT A LOT OF WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE 1960s IN LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY, AND THE STRUGGLE, EVEN TO GET RECOGNITION, EVEN TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS DESERVE THE SAME ACCESS TO ECONOMIC PROSPERITY, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A REFRESHER COURSE FOR ME, CERTAINLY.

>> Renee: AND GIVEN THE EVENTS OF 2020, OF COURSE YOU WERE DOING THIS BEFORE.

BUT YOU KNOW, WE WERE ALREADY IN SOME TUMULTUOUS TIMES, THE TIMES THAT WERE YOU WORKING ON THIS.

I'M SURE IT HAD A DIFFERENT RESONANCE AND A FRESH PERSPECTIVE ON, MY GOSH, HOW FAR WE'VE COME AND HOW FAR WE'VE GOT TO GO.

>> WELL, YOU SEE, I MEAN ON ONE LEVEL IT'S NOT SURPRISING.

THERE IS A CONTINUATION HERE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THESE HISTORIC PROBLEMS.

I THINK MAINSTREAM SOCIETY PARTICULARLY WHITE SOCIETY LIKES TO THINK WE'VE SOLVED THAT.

NOW LET'S MOVE ON.

BUT IN REALITY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SO MANY LEGACY PROBLEMS THAT CONTINUE.

AND, YOU KNOW, GENERATIONAL WEALTH AND A LOT OF ISSUES THAT CONTINUE.

AND IT CERTAINLY MADE ME APPRECIATE DOING THIS WORK ON URBAN LEAGUE HISTORY AND THE WORK THAT P.G.

AND MANY OTHERS HAVE DONE OVER THESE 52 YEARS NOW; HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO KEEP WORKING AT THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE NOT ISSUES THAT SOLVE THEMSELVES.

THEY'RE ENDEMIC LEGACY PROBLEMS.

>> Renee: AND SO P.G., FOR YOU, HAVING LIVED THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND NOT JUST FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE URBAN LEAGUE, BUT YOU ARE A CENTRAL FIGURE IN THIS, NOT JUST IN THIS REGION BUT THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

AND OUR AUDIENCE IS USED TO SEEING YOU BECAUSE WE'VE HAD YOU ON PROGRAMS ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS.

THOSE PROGRAMS OF OLD.

SO YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

SO WHEN YOU WERE HELPING WITH THIS BOOK AND GOING THROUGH, LOOKING THROUGH THE DEAD FLIES AND ALL OF THAT WITH YOUR MASK ON, I MEAN WHAT-- HOUSING, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU MADE THE GREATEST STRIDES IN?

>> LET ME FIRST ACKNOWLEDGE JACKIE.

>> Renee: YES.

>> WHEN SHE SAID ONE DAY SHE SAID P.G., I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS GETTING MYSELF INTO WHEN I SAID OKAY, LET'S DO THIS BECAUSE WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TALKING, I THINK WE WERE DOWNSTAIRS AND I SAID I'M GOING TO TAKE YOU UPSTAIRS AND SHOW YOU THE WAR ROOM WHERE I GOT ALL THE MATERIALS IN.

WE HAVE A TABLE THERE AS LONG FROM HERE TO HERE SEAT.

AND IT WAS PILED UP AND THEN WE HAVE BOXES ALL ON THE FLOOR.

NORMAN FRANKLIN IS OFTEN CALLED ME A HOARDER BECAUSE I'VE KEPT EVERYTHING.

BUT I FELT AN OBLIGATION WHEN I TOOK OVER THIS ORGANIZATION, TO KEEP THAT, TO KEEP THOSE MATERIALS BECAUSE THAT'S IN HONOR OF Dr. BITTERSTAFF AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED BACK THEN TO GET THIS ORGANIZATION STARTED.

THAT WAS NOT AN EASY FEAT, JUST THE MATTER OF RAISING $25,000 WHICH WAS THE REQUIREMENT OF THE LOCAL COMMUNITY.

AND I GUESS I WOULD COME TO-- AND JACKIE, I'M SURE WOULD SPEAK TO THIS ONE, THE NECESSITY OF GETTING AN EDITORIAL FROM THE LOCAL PAPER.

THAT WAS A PIVOTAL THING.

THE LOCAL PAPERS, AT THAT TIME, THE HERALD AND THE LEADER AND A MAN NAMED FRED WATTS WAS THE GENERAL MANAGER, THE PRESIDENT.

AND HE WAS A RACIST, I THINK, WITHOUT ANY QUESTION.

AND THEY WERE-- I THINK LINDA BLACKFORD WHO IS STILL WRITING EXCELLENT PIECES FOR THE "HERALD-LEADER," WROTE A STORY 15 YEARS AGO SAYING WHY DIDN'T WE COVER THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

AND INDEED THEY WEREN'T.

>> THE COLORED NOTES.

THIS GROUP, THIS INTERRACIAL GROUP, THE COMMITTEE ON RELIGION AND HUMAN RIGHTS THAT WAS KIND OF THE PRECURSOR TO THE URBAN LEAGUE, BUT THEY WERE TRYING TO GET ATTENTION FOR THEIR WORK, TRYING TO GET SOME COVERAGE IN THE PAPER AND THEY JUST MET A BRICK WALL.

I MEAN THERE WAS REALLY-- THEY WERE GETTING ALMOST NO RECOGNITION.

AND SO FRED DIDN'T WANT TO COVER IT AND AND IN FACT, THERE IS AN ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WITH ONE OF THE, I THINK A CITY EDITOR WHO WORKED THERE AT THAT TIME AND SAID, WELL, Mr.

WALKS THOUGHT THAT IF HE COVERED CIVIL RIGHTS, THAT THERE WOULD BE DEMONSTRATIONS HERE AND THE WHOLE CITY MIGHT BURN DOWN.

>> Renee: THAT HE WOULD INCITE A RIOT.

>> THAT WAS THE WAY HE CHOSE TO THINK ABOUT IT, AT ANY RATE.

AND SO THE POWERS THAT WERE TOOK THEIR SIGNAL FROM THE NEWSPAPER.

>> Renee: SURE.

>> AND THEY WEREN'T GOING TO GET ANYWHERE, REALLY, UNTIL THERE WAS SOME, YOU KNOW, BLESSING, A HANDS ON BLESSING BY THE NEWSPAPER.

SO FINALLY, WHITNEY YOUNG, JR., WHO WAS THE HEAD OF THE NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE AT THAT TIME AND A KENTUCKY NATIVE, FASCINATING STORY IN AND OF ITSELF, HIMSELF AND HIS FATHER AND THEIR PATHS.

BUT HE WAS REALLY A PROFESSIONAL AT OR DEALING WITH PEOPLE LIKE FRED WALKS SO HE CAME DOWN HERE AND I THINK TALKED OR WENT TO BREAKFAST AT KEENELAND AND WHATEVER AND THEN CAME AND HAD A ONE ON ONE MEETING WITH FRED AND SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, OUT OF THAT, THE "HERALD-LEADER" WROTE AN EDITORIAL ENDORSING THE FOUNDING OF AN URBAN LEAGUE CHAPTER.

>> Renee: HE CAME TO JESUS THERE.

>> ONE MEETING IN LEXINGTON HISTORY THAT I COULD HAVE BEEN A FLY ON THE WALL ON THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FASCINATING TO HEAR WHAT THAT CONVERSATION WAS.

>> THAT WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF HIS CAREER WAS TO GET THAT FRED WALKS TO DO THAT.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAY HAVE ALSO HELPED DURING THAT TIME IS Dr. OSWALD, WHO WAS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY, WHO IS VERY PROGRESSIVE.

TO GIVE YOU AN INDICATION OF HOW PROGRESSIVE HE WAS, WHEN HE LEFT, HE WENT TO BERKLEY.

>> Renee: THAT GIVES YOU SOME PERSPECTIVE.

>> HE WAS A BIG SUPPORTER.

>> HE WAS A BIG SUPPORTER OF GETTING THE URBAN LEAGUE ESTABLISHED.

>> Renee: AND SO WAS THE JEWISH COMMUNITY.

>> OH YEAH.

>> Renee: AND THAT MAY NOT BE WIDELY KNOWN.

>> AND BACK IN THAT TIME, THE BLACK, THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN MOVEMENT AND THE JEWISH COMMUNITIES WERE ARM AND ARM.

AND OVER TIME, WE'VE GONE OUR SEPARATE WAYS, BUT STANLEY ROSE, WHO IS A LEADER IN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY, WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO STARTED RAISING THE FIRST MONEY.

STANLEY ROSE WAS THE GUY WHO GOT US STARTED ON OUR, YOU KNOW, OUR HOUSING, OUR SIGNATURE ACTIVITY.

IN ORDER TO GET THE HOUSING PROGRAM STARTED, WE HAD TO BUY SOME UNITS OVER ON CHESTNUT STREET THAT WERE DILAPIDATED.

IT WAS STANLEY ROSE WHO MADE THE ACQUISITION FROM ANOTHER JEWISH GUY, WHO WAS NOT VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN SELLING TO US.

BUT STANLEY SAID TO HIM, YOU'VE GOT ESPECIALLY ALL OF THE TAX BREAKS OFF OF THIS.

SELL THE PROPERTY TO THE URBAN LEAGUE.

AND THAT'S WHEN WE BOUGHT THE FIRST FOUR HOUSES ON CHESTNUT CHEAT AND LAUNCHED FROM THERE WITH $18,000 AND NOW WE'VE DONE OVER $28 MILLION WORTH OF HOUSING.

>> Renee: THAT'S AMAZING.

AND GENTRIFICATION YOU ARE TAKING HEAD ON AS WELL.

>> AND THAT WE ARE.

AND IT'S GETTING EVEN TOUGHER TO DO BECAUSE OUR URBAN CORE HAS BEEN TARGETED.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING INTO DOWN WITH DEEP POCKETS.

AND MONEY READILY AVAILABLE TO SUCK UP THE PROPERTY.

AND YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T REALIZE WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THEM.

IT'S JUST SO FRIGHTENING TO SEE PEOPLE 678 I WAS TALKING TO A LADY ONE DAY AND I CAN'T SAY THE WORDS SHE SAID ON TV, BUT SHE JUST TOLD ME, SHE IS SO TIRED OF PEOPLE WALKING UP ON THE PORCH AND KNOCKING ON HER DOOR, MAKING AN OFFER FOR HER HOUSE.

AND SHE SAID, HER RESPONSE IS DO YOU SEE A FOR SALE SIGN ON MY YARD?

>> Renee: RIGHT.

NO TRESPASSING SIGN MUST NOT WORK.

>> IT DOESN'T MATTER.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE LOST SOME PROPERTIES BECAUSE OF IT.

>> Renee: AND THE DISPLACEMENT OF THEM BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD WHATEVER IS BEING DONE IN THE NAME OF URBAN RENEWAL, TO STAY IN THOSE AREAS.

>> THEY'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO AFFORD AND THEN THE ACCELERATION OF THE TAXES MAKES THEM HAVE TO PRETTY MUCH LET THEIR HOUSES GO.

>> Renee: BUT YOU KNOW, Dr. GERALD SMITH WITH U.K. WHO IS PART OF THE RACE AND EQUITY COMMISSION FOR MAYOR LINDA GORTON HAD TALKED ABOUT IT'S NOT JUST THE DISPOSITION OF PEOPLE, BUT IT'S ALSO OF CULTURE, OF PLACE, OF IDENTITY.

YOU KNOW, OF THINGS THAT DON'T HAVE A MONETARY VALUE, JACKIE.

>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE EAST END, I MEAN GOING BACK TO ED HOLMES WHO WAS CRITICALLY INVOLVED IN STARTING THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT.

BUT HE LIVED IN THE EAST END WHEN HIS FAMILY WAS YOUNG.

THEY OWNED A HOME THERE.

AND AS THEY STARTED SEEING THIS DISPLACEMENT, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD CHANGED.

I REMEMBER HIM TALKING TO ME BEFORE, LONG BEFORE I WORKED ON THIS BOOK SAYING, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS MY HOME.

YOU KNOW, THE OLDER PEOPLE WHO LIVED THERE, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD COME OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND BE COMFORTABLE THERE.

AND THEN EVERYTHING STARTS CHANGING FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.

I MEAN BUT THAT WHOLE CULTURE OF THE EAST END GETS LOST.

>> Renee: RIGHT.

>> AND THAT'S A REAL SHAME.

THAT'S A REAL LOSS TO THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE.

>> Renee: YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, NORMAN FRANKLIN.

AND I HAD ASKED YOU ABOUT TWO PEOPLE WHO WERE MOST INFLUENTIAL AND IMPACTFUL WITH YOU AND YOU MENTIONED HIM WITHOUT HESITATION.

>> WITHOUT.

NORMAN AND I WORKED TOGETHER LIKE 30 PLUS YEARS.

NEVER HAD A CROSS WORD.

WE COULD COMMUNICATE WITHOUT SAYING MUCH.

AND NORMAN DIDN'T TALK MUCH ANYWAY.

[LAUGHTER] BUT HE WAS A STICKLER FOR THE NUMBERS.

AND HAD JUST A PASSION FOR THE WORK THAT HE DID.

>> Renee: WE HAVE A PICTURE OF YOU TWO TOGETHER ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE, THE CAPTION IS "BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

PEEPLES IS THE GENERAL WHO GOES OUT AND STRATEGIZES AND GETS RESOURCES IN PLACE AND I MAKE IT WORK."

>> AND HE DOES.

HE ALWAYS DID.

OUR SEED CAPITAL WAS 18,000 MUCH AND I SEE SOME DEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS THAT THE CITY IS HELPING LAUNCH NOW WITH 600, 700, 800,000 DOLLARS.

WE COULDN'T HAVE-- WAS WE COULD HAVE DONE WITH THAT IF WE HAD THAT KIND OF MONEY.

OUR BANKER WOULD HAVE HAD US ARRESTED IF HE SAW US WITH THAT MUCH MONEY.

[LAUGHTER] >> Renee: BUT SPEAKING OF BANKING THOUGH, YOU WERE VERY INFLUENTIAL IN PUSHING SOME OF THOSE BUTTONS AS WELL WHEN IT CAME TO THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS IN THIS AREA.

>> THAT WE WERE, BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE DEVELOP THE KIND OF RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE BANKERS TO GET THEM TO REINVEST.

BUT THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT ACT CAME ALONG AT A TIME THAT HELPED US WITH THAT.

WE HAD HAD SOME SUCCESS IN BUILDING SOME UNITS AND THEN WHEN COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT ACT CAME IN, BANKERS WERE LOOKING FOR INNER CITY PROJECTS TO WORK WITH SO THEY STARTED COMING TO US.

AND SO THAT WAS HELPFUL.

THAT WAS A WIN-WIN ON BOTH SIDES.

>> Renee: AND HAVE YOU GARNERED LOTS OF SUPPORT FROM FOLKS LIKE DON AND MYRA BALL.

>> GOD SEND.

ANYWHERE YOU GO IN THIS COMMUNITY, YOU SEE URBAN CORE DEVELOPMENT, YOU WILL SEE THE HAND PRINT OF DON BALL.

DON JUST HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH ALL THAT.

HE DID IT WITH THE URBAN LEAGUE.

HE DID IT WITH REACH, ALL THE ORGANIZATIONS WHO MADE A DIFFERENCE DOWNTOWN.

AND, YOU KNOW, BOY DO WE MISSION HIM.

>> Renee: WE SURE DO.

>> CAN I JUST ADD ONE THING ABOUT THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, PARTICULARLY, I THINK, WHEN I GOT INTO REPRESENTAL PROJECTS.

ONE THING NORMAL NORMAN TALKED TO ME ABOUT THAT STRUCK ME, HE SAID BECAUSE WE ARE NON-PROFIT, WE CAN PUT MORE MONEY BACK INTO THESE UNITS SO THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY WOULD ALL COME WITH WASHER AND DRYER HOOK-UPS.

THAT THEY WOULD BE AWARE THAT OFTEN IT WOULD BE A SINGLE WOMAN HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD, SO THAT YOU COULD PULL YOUR CAR UP.

>> Renee: SO SAFETY WAS IMPORTANT.

>> IT WOULD BE SAFE.

AND THE ROOMS WOULD BE BIG ENOUGH SO THAT THERE WOULD BE ROOM FOR KIDS TO DO THEIR HOME WORK IN THE LIVING ROOM OR HAVE FRIENDS OVER; THAT IT WAS MORE THAN-- THAT THEY WERE BUILDING HOMES MORE THAN JUST A PLACE TO STAY.

>> Renee: JUST TO HAVE A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD BUT IT WAS TO ACTUALLY MAKE MAKE A HOME.

>> HE SAID SO THAT THEY CAN CONCENTRATE ON THE THINGS THEY NEED FOR THEIR FAMILIES TO SUCCEED.

>> Renee: I WOW.

>> THAT WAS AN EXPRESSION OF THE DEEP COMMITMENT TO THE PEOPLE THEY WERE SERVING, THAT THAT WAS A REALLY THOUGHTFUL EXPRESSION.

>> I THINK WE STARTED THIS IN THE 80s.

WE SAID JUST BECAUSE IT WILL BE FOR LOW INCOME AND POOR PEOPLE, IT SHOULD NOT LOOK THAT WAY.

>> Renee: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND EVEN SOME OF THE FIRST HOUSES THAT THE WE DID ON CHESTNUT STREET, WE WERE VERY CAREFUL TO SAVE ANY SPECIAL WOODWORK THAT WAS THERE THAT WAS DONE WAY BACK IN THE DAY, HAND CRAFTED.

AND SO THOSE SMALL THINGS, THOSE SMALL THINGS MADE A DIFFERENCE.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING HAS GIVEN ME SOME JUST SOME GREAT DAYS, WHEN WOULD YOU GO TO A CLOSING WITH PEOPLE WHO NEVER THOUGHT THAT THEY WOULD OWN THEIR OWN HOME.

I REMEMBER WE SOLD A HOUSE TO A LADY, WE AFFECTIONATELY CALLED HER MISS MADDIE.

MISS MADDIE WAS A DOMESTIC.

SHE CLEANED HOUSES FOR WHITE PEOPLE.

SHE RENTED ALL HER LIFE.

AND WHEN SHE HAD A CHANCE TO BUY HER HOUSE ON CHESTNUT, I REMEMBER GOING TO THE CLOSING WITH HER AND SHE REMINED ME SO MUCH OF MY GRANDMOTHER AT THAT CLOSING.

BECAUSE WHEN IT CAME TIME TO PAY, YOU AND I WILL PULL OUT A CHECKBOOK.

MISS MADDIE UNROLLED THAT HAND KERCHIEF AND MADE HER DOWN PAYMENT I.

WAS SO TOUCHING AND U WOULD GO IN HER HOUSE AND YOU COULD EAT OFF HER FLOOR.

>> Renee: METICULOUS CLEANER.

THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS PAID TO DO AND WASN'T GOING TO SHORT SHRIFT HERSELF.

>> ONE OF OUR ANNUAL REPORTS HAS HER PHOTO ON IT AND THAT'S ONE OF MY MOST MEMORABLE ONES.

>> Renee: THAT'S AWESOME.

DON'T GIVE THEM THE SCRAPS.

I LIKE THAT.

THAT THEY DESERVE TO HAVE JUST AS ANYONE ELSE.

>> IT'S A HOME.

>> WHEN WE WERE BUILDING THE HOMES FOR THE PEOPLE, WE ALWAYS ALLOWED THEM-- WE WOULD SELECT THE OWNER BEFORE WE STARTED DOING A LOT OF THE WORK SO THEY COULD SELECT ROOM COLORS AND YOU WOULD SEE THEM, THE MOTHER WOULD COME THROUGH WITH THE KIDS RUNNING THROUGH.

THE EXCITEMENT OF KNOWING THAT I'M GOING TO HAVE MY OWN ROOM AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

AND THAT WAS A BENEFIT THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN JUST FOR PEOPLE ON THE SOUTH SIDE.

>> Renee: THAT'S RIGHT.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT EDUCATION BECAUSE AT THE FUNERAL SERVICE OF SUPERINTENDENT MANNY CAULK WHO LEFT US IN 2020, AND A LOT OF WAIT VIRTUAL AND-- OF IT WAS VIRTUAL AND YOUR REMARKS WERE.

AND YOU MENTIONED THIS ABOUT NO CONFIDENCE NO TRUST.

WE ARE GOING TO SHOW THAT.

AND THAT SOME WOULD SAY ARE WE BACK AT THAT PLACE?

I WON'T LET YOU GO TOO DEEP INTO THAT RIGHT NOW.

WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK ON THAT LATER.

BUT EDUCATION EQUITY HAS BEEN A BIG FOCUS.

AND YOU AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN ON THE FRONT LINES OF THAT BATTLE AS WELL.

HOW DO YOU FEEL THE PROGRESS, HOW DOES IT STACK UP NOW VERSUS WHEN YOU STARTED?

>> WE ARE STILL STRUGGLING WITH THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP.

THANK GOD THAT HE DID SEND MANNY OUR WAY AND HELPED US START CLOSING THAT GAP.

UNFORTUNATELY MANNY HAD TO GO TO HIS FINAL RESTING PLACE.

MAY HE REST IN PEACE.

HE LEFT A CHALLENGE FOR US.

THE CHALLENGE IS WE'VE GOT TO WORK HARD TO KEEP FOCUS ON THAT ACHIEVEMENT GAP.

THE CHALLENGE IS TOUGHER RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE FIND OURSELVES IN A SITUATION THAT IS NOBODY'S FAULT BUT WE ARE GOING INTO THE SUPERINTENDENT'S SEARCH WITH AN INEXPERIENCED GROUP THAT'S ALL WHITE.

COULD BE POTENTIALLY PROBLEMATIC SOME OF US WHO THOUGHT WE WERE FINISHED HAVE TO COME BACK OFF THE BENCH.

I'M REJOINING THE EQUITY COUNCIL.

I'M RECRUITING BOB BROWN AND SOME OF THE OTHERS WHO TO COME BACK.

>> Renee: AND I HEAR REVEREND AIKENS HAS TIME ON HIS HANDS HIS HE RETIRED.

>> WE ARE GOING TO WORK THROUGH THE EQUITY COUNCIL WITH THE BOARD.

WE DON'T HAVE TO BE ELECTED.

BUT WE WILL BE RIGHT THERE WHISPERING IN THEIR EAR EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

WE CANNOT-- I SAID AT THE SERVICE, MANNY, WE WILL NOT LET THIS WAGON ROLL BACK DOWN THE HILL.

THAT'S OUR PROMISE.

>> Renee: AS A JOURNALIST, JACALYN CARFAGNO, EDUCATION, BIG ISSUE TO BE COVERED AND I'M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS.

JUST WHAT P.G.

SAID, WHERE WE ARE NOW WITH A BOARD THAT MAY NOT BE AS ALIGNED WITH THE GOALS THAT P.G.

AND OTHERS HAVE SET FORTH AND WORKED SO HARD TO ATTAIN.

>> WELL, IT'S A CHALLENGE, CERTAINLY.

I DON'T KNOW ANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS INDIVIDUALLY, AND I DON'T PAY AS CLOSE ATTENTION AS I ONCE DID SINCE I DON'T WRITE EDITORIALS ANYMORE, BUT IT'S A REAL CHALLENGE AND I THINK IT'S A HARD TO BELIEVE, IF YOU YOURSELF, YOU KNOW, LIVE IN A WHITE MIDDLE-CLASS WORLD, WHAT THE REAL CHALLENGES ARE FOR-- AND NOT JUST AFRICAN-AMERICAN OR KIDS OF COLOR.

BUT LEXINGTON FAYETTE COUNTY HAS SO MANY EXTRAORDINARILY POOR PEOPLE OF ALL RACES.

>> Renee: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND YOU KNOW, IT'S A STRUGGLE.

AND WITH THIS PANDEMIC, IT'S THE LOW WAGE WORKERS WHO HAVE BEEN HURT THE WORST AND THAT STRUGGLE ISN'T GOING TO BE ANY EASIER IN THE EFFECTS FEW YEARS.

IT'S-- IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

IT'S A REAL CHALLENGE.

>> RENEE, LET'S NOT FORGET THE OTHER BIG CHALLENGE WE HAVE FACING US IN 2021 IS WE ROLLED OUT OF 2020 EXCITED ABOUT THE WORK THAT WAS DONE BY THE MAYOR'S COMMISSION ON RACE.

NOW WE'VE GOT TO BREATHE LIFE INTO THAT THING.

>> Renee: RIGHT.

>> AND MAKE IT WORK.

>> Renee: WITH THE MONEY IT'S GOING TO TAKE TO MAKE IT WORK.

>> AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN EASY FEAT.

>> Renee: RIGHT.

>> ALL OF US HAVE GOT TO CIRCLE THE WAGONS AND WORK HARD TO DO, IF WE WANT TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT WE WANT TO SAY WE WANTED TO DO WHEN THAT REPORT WAS PUT IN PLACE.

>> Renee: RIGHT.

AS WE HAVE LESS THAN PROBABLY A MINUTE OR SO REMAINING, THIS IS AIRING RIGHT BEFORE THE INAUGURATION OF THE NEW PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT, HISTORICAL FASHION IN A WHOLE LOT OF WAYS.

BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, YOUR OPTIMISM OR CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT LIE AS HEAD, P.G.

>> I'M STILL REELING FROM LAST WEDNESDAY.

>> Renee: AND THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN WHEN THE CAPITOL WAS STORMED BY THE MOB.

>> I'M STILL REELING FROM THAT AND I'M STILL WORRIED ABOUT HOW MUCH BEHIND THE SCENES COLLUSION WENT ON BECAUSE IF THAT'S AS DEEP AS SOME OF US THINK IT IS, WE'VE GOT PROBLEMS.

WE'VE GOT SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

AND IT'S-- I FIND IT DIFFICULT TO BE OPTIMISTIC RIGHT NOW.

BUT I ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO COME BACK.

BUT RIGHT NOW, I DON'T FEEL TOO GOOD ABOUT BEING HERE.

>> Renee: I'LL GIVE YOU 20 SECONDS TO ANSWER THAT IF YOU CAN.

>> IT'S HARD TO BE OPTIMISTIC WHEN CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG AND SOMEONE WEARING A HOODY SAYING CAMP AUSCHWITZ OCCUPIED THE CAPITOL OF OUR COUNTRY.

IT'S A VERY, VERY, VERY DISTRESSING DAY.

THE ONLY HOPE I TAKE FROM IT IS THAT, AS I'VE SAID A COUPLE TIMES ALREADY, I THINK A LOT OF US GO ALONG THROUGH OUR LIVES AND THINK THINGS ARE OKAY.

I'M OKAY.

I'M COOL.

AND I THINK MAYBE THAT, MORE THAN ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, WOKE PEOPLE UP AND SAID WE'VE GOT PROBLEMS HERE WHEN THAT CAN HAPPEN.

>> Renee: THAT'S RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU.

WE'LLY HAVE TO HAVE YOU ALL COME BACK AND NOT ANOTHER 50 YEARS.

BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

MAYBE WE GET MIDWAY THROUGH 2021, GOD WILLING AND THE CREEK DON'T RISE.

LET'S HOPE WE MAKE IT.

WE HOPE YOU MAKE IT.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THIS VERY SPECIAL EDITION OF CONNECTIONS, I THINK.

YOU TAKE REALLY GOOD CARE OF YOURSELF.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

FOLLOW ME ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER.

YOU CAN LISTEN TO OUR PROGRAMS ON PODCASTS AND ON OUR WEBSITE.