GEOFF BENNETT: For more on the indictment and# its implications, we're joined now by Ty Cobb.## He was a White House attorney in the first# Trump administration, managing the response## to the special counsel Robert Mueller's probe# into alleged Russian election interference.

Thanks for being with us.

TY COBB, Former White House Special Counsel:# My.. GEOFF BENNETT: And I want to start with your# reaction to the indictment of former FBI## Director James Comey and to the way these charges# were brought, both the substance and the process.

TY COBB: So I think the process is# more important than the substance.

This process was worse than unusual.

It was# wholly un-American and really despicable in the## way it was done.

America's long been# a country where evenhanded justice## has been the standard and the goal.# And that's all been abandoned under## this president and his willing# assistant attorney general.

Keep in mind that career prosecutors, including# a seasoned prosecutor of Trump's own appointment## as the U.S.

attorney in the# Eastern District OF Virginia,## had concluded at the end of a long process, along# with the FBI, that there were -- there was just## insufficient evidence with which to proceed# against the former FBI director, Mr.

Comey.

In response, Trump fired that prosecutor,# according to him -- the prosecutor says he## resigned -- and ordered, in no uncertain terms,# his attorney general to punish his enemies, not## just Mr.

Comey, but Senator Schiff and Attorney# General Letitia James, saying that these people## had tortured him, he'd been wronged badly, and it# was time for -- time for them to be punished now.

And that historically is not the way America# works.

Now, that's the way Allende's Chile worked,## Stalin's Russia worked, Hitler's Germany worked,# but it's not the way America works.

It's not## the role of an attorney general to do what the# president orders him to do in criminal matters.

Attorney generals with character,# historically, Elliot Richardson,## and then his deputy William Ruckelshaus, had# the appropriate response when President Nixon## tried to strong-arm them into firing the# then-independent counsel, Archibald Cox,## and they said no and were forced to resign.# They honored their oath to the Constitution.

As we saw, sadly, at the great hall of# justice shortly after Trump's inauguration,## when Pam Bondi took over, she pledged the fealty# of herself and her department to the president,## rather than the Constitution.

And# that, sadly, is the way this is gone.

So I don't think this can be reported as# one or two degrees of standard deviation## from the norm.

This is a wholesale# 180 from the norms of what## made America different from# Third World dictatorships,## authoritarian regimes and tyranny.

I think this# case could well be dismissed because of vindictive## prosecution standards or selective prosecution# standards or prosecutorial misconduct standards.

GEOFF BENNETT: How do you assess the way President# Trump in his second term has asserted control over## the Justice Department and many of the prosecutors# who work for it, as compared to the first term?

TY COBB: Well, he appointed people who# were clearly slavishly devoted to him and## willing to break any ethical barriers# or legal barriers to do his bidding.

That's much different than the first time, where# Senator Sessions was the first attorney general## and Bill Barr is his successor.

People can quarrel# with some of their decisions and some of their## policies, but I don't think they can quarrel# about the fact that they were men who had devoted## themselves to public service over a long period# of time and cared greatly about their country.

Here, what we have is people who care less# about their country and certainly less about## the Constitution and more about their standing# with the president, whose crippling narcissism## dictates his every whim, including this vengeance# tirade that he's on in the Eastern District.

GEOFF BENNETT: You worked closely# with President Trump, as we mentioned,## when he pushed for something that was# clearly outside of the bounds of established## norms.

How did those conversations# typically unfold in the White House?

TY COBB: Well, I can't really go# into my direct interactions with## the president on legal matters.# That would be inappropriate.

But I can say that the difference between# the people that were in the White House## when I was there and what appears to# be going on now is, when he wanted to## take a particular course of action, if it# wasn't appropriate or if it was unwise,## unethical or wrong, there were# people who would say that to him.

He had very strong, capable people# who were experienced in government,## knew government much better than he did,# and acted as an inappropriate restraint## when he suggested something that they perceived# as perhaps out of bounds or inappropriate.

I think## now what you have is, whatever his narcissistic# whim may be, vengeance, power, war crimes,## whatever, people just say yes.

You know, how# quickly can we get that done for you, sir?

So, I think that's a much different# circumstance than what we see now.

GEOFF BENNETT: I have to ask,# did you feel this way about the## president when you worked for him, or# has there been a fundamental change?

TY COBB: No, I was never a Trump supporter.# I never voted for Trump.

I took the position## because I was asked to serve the country and the# president at the time in a matter where I thought,## because of my strong relationship# and long friendship with Bob Mueller,## together, we could find a path that# would not divide the country through## what was going to be a difficult time.# And I think we got that done, largely.

But, no, I was not an ideological match for the# president, and I was not a personal supporter.

But## I'm very concerned.

And, frankly, I don't# understand how anybody who cares about the## country could not be concerned about# the attacks on the rule of law, which## has been so diminished now in our country,# and to the point that it's a danger to not## just Trump's enemies, but to all of# us, as he picks winners and losers.

I mean, Tom Homan went to McDonald's today and# presumably spent some of the cash that he got## as a bribe, and there are no consequences for# that.

And even the White House press secretary## lies on his behalf, insisting he didn't take the# money, even though he's on tape taking the money.

And, instead, James Comey is preparing# for his arraignment.

And that, I think,## is -- I think that people should# understand how wrong that is.

GEOFF BENNETT: The president, as we know,# prizes personal loyalty above all.

What's## the red line that even loyalists should not# cross, and how should they defend that boundary?

TY COBB: Well, I think the# red line is really established## for many of these people# by the oath that they take.

Not everybody takes an oath# to be federal employee, but,## certainly, the attorney general,# FBI agents, prosecutors,## Cabinet officials and others have taken an oath to# either defend and protect or preserve and defend## the Constitution.

And that should be their# line.

And the Constitution requires a## loyalty to a set of principles that have# been abandoned by this administration.

GEOFF BENNETT: Ty Cobb, thank you for your# perspectives and for your time this evening.

TY COBB: My pleasure.

Good luck.

Thank you.